https://brwydr.blogspot.com/2019/07/mystery-of-y-croes-naid-icon-of-welsh.html
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RHYS AP GRUFFYDD A FORGOTTEN WELSH REBELLION
http://welshremembrancer.blogspot.com/2008/12/last-prince-of-wales-rhys-ap-gruffydd.html
Saturday 27 July 2019
END OF DAYS FOR NATIVE CYMRIC PRINCES - REBELLION AND EXECUTION OF RHYS AP GRUFFYDD.
https://brwydr.blogspot.com/2019/07/mystery-of-y-croes-naid-icon-of-welsh.html
******************************
RHYS AP GRUFFYDD A FORGOTTEN WELSH REBELLION
http://welshremembrancer.blogspot.com/2008/12/last-prince-of-wales-rhys-ap-gruffydd.html
Thursday 25 July 2019
Y CROES NAID POSTS 1 - 4 NOTE IN POST THREE THE BELOW LINKS THERE AND HERE IN THIS POST DO NOT WORK - SO GOOGLE UP AGAIN TO READ AND COPY?
BELOW WHEN LINKED SHOW
'NOT FOUND'?
Celtic Britain and the Pilgrim movement
G.H. Jones -
History
Llywelyn ap Gruffudd: Prince of Wales
BANER Y CROES NAID. - Cofiwch 1282
Cofiwn Cilmeri | Facebook
Cofiwch 1282 Cofiwn
Cilmeri added 2 new photos. November 15, 2015 ·. BANER Y
CROES NAID. Image may contain: 1 person. No photo description available.
Gwaith Lewis Glyn Cothi: The Poetical
Works of Lewis Glyn Cothi, a
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FksAAAAAcAAJ
Lewis (Glyn
Cothi) - 1837
The Welsh Cross Mystery : Peter Ogwen Jones : Free
Download ...
11
Jan 2018 - A study of the origin and history of
the Croes Naid, an ancient relic of the True Cross,
captured from Wales
You visited this page
on 22/07/19.
(PDF) The Welsh Cross Mystery | Peter Ogwen Jones -
Academia.edu
Contents THE
WELSH CROSS MYSTERY INTRODUCTION 1 One HOLY FAMILIES
7 Two HELEN'S DISCOVERY 21 Three ELEN'S STORY 43 Four CROSS ...
You visited this page
on 22/07/19.
The Mystery Of The Croes Naid – James Churchill
11
Jun 2017 - The Croes Naid, also known as the Cross of
Neath- The chances are that ... and the other Welsh Crown
Jewels after that is a complete mystery.
TRY THESE LINKS?
Tuesday 23 July 2019
P1: Y CROES NAID INTRODUCTION - CAMPAIGNING MATERIAL.
CASTELL MADRYN AND
THE STOLEN NATIONAL TREASURES OF GWYNEDD 1283 – 1284.
THE CAPTURE OF DAFYDD III IN AREA OF
ABERGWYNGREGYN MEHEFIN 1283 AND HIS EXECUTION BY MEANS OF BEING HUNG, DRAWN AND
QUARTED ON 3 HYDREF 1283 IN SHREWSBURY IS VERY MUCH ASSOCIATED WITH THE DESIRE
OF EDWARD I TO NOT ONLY CONQUOR GWYNEDD AND SUBDUE IT’S NATIVE PRINCES BUT ALSO
TO LOOT THE ROYAL TREASURES OF GWYNEDD. AT START OF THE WAR OF 1282 – 83
LLYWELYN III HAD THE ROYAL TREASURES STORED AT CASTELL MADRYN ON THE LLEYN
PENINSULAR IN KEEPING OF HIS ELDER BROTHER OWAIN. SUBSEQUENTLY WITH DEATH OF LLYWELYN III (ABEREDW 11 RHAGFYR
1282) ANDLATER HIS BROTHER DAFYDD III.
DAFYDD III HAD TAKEN TITLE TYWYSOG CYMRU AND CONTINUED TO MOUNT MILITARY
RESISTENCE TO THE ENGLISH ARMIES
ADVANCING ON GWYNEDD FROM THE SOUTH TOWARDS CASTELL Y BERE AND FROM THE EAST
TOWARDS CASTELL DOLWYDDELEN. FOR A SHORT
WHILE DAFYDD III WITH HIS FAMILY AND LOYAL FOLLOWERS HAD USED BOTH CASTLES IN A
RETREAT THAT WAS TO CONCLUDE WITH HIS
CAPTURE IN THE MOUNTAINS ABOVE ABERGWYNGREGYN ON OR ABOUT 28 MEHEFIN 1283 . AT
THIS TIME DAFYDD III HAD WITH HIM THE SAID ROYAL TREASURES WHICH UPON HIS
CAPTURE WERE DELIVERED UP TO EDWARD I
ALONG LATER WITH ‘Y CROES NAID’ HANDED OVER TO EDWARD I BY WELL REWARDED
TREACHEROUS WELSH MONKS INTO WHOSE KEEPING THIS HOLY RELIC HAD BEEN GIVEN ON
DEATH OF LLYWELYN III. PRIOR TO THIS EDWARD HAD BEEN BASED IN NEFYN WHILST HIS
MEN SEARCHED FOR THE ROYAL TREASURES THEY THOUGHT WERE AT CASTELL MADRYN.
PRESENT DAY ‘CASTELL MADRYN’ IS A CARAVAN PARK THE CASTLE ALONG WITH AN
INDEPENDENT GWYNEDD AND THE ROYAL TREASURES LONG GONE. THERE IS NO PUBLIC
DISPLAY OF THIS STORY AT THE SAID CARAVAN
PARK
GETHIN AP GRUFFYDD Y PASG 2018.
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Tag Archives:
Croes Naid
The
Cross of Destiny
Sometimes
it’s the things that everyone knows that turn out to be the most puzzling – and
also the most illuminating. A couple of years ago we had an interesting
discussion on the medieval-religion Jiscmail list (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion)
about the Croes Naid, the fragment of the True Cross which was the most valued
part of the regalia of the Welsh kings of Gwynedd. The name has been variously
translated as the Cross of Destiny or the Cross of Refuge (by the Geiriadur Prifysgol
Cymru, Wales St George’s
For
Christmas my lovely husband gave me a book on the graveyards of the City of London St
Olave Hart Street
People were
coming out of the lunch-time Bible study – men in expensive tailoring, students
in jeans, lots and lots of people. In we went. The church was still full and
buzzing, people eating sandwiches, other tourists wandering around, a couple of
meetings in the transept. Eventually a welcomer came up to us, answered a few
questions and lent us a copy of the church guide book. (Yes, we did go and buy
a copy of our own.) The welcoming strategy was Good – let people look around
first, approach them with a welcome, ask a few open-ended questions, decide
they were academics, offer some literature, let them get on with it. Then she
discovered we were Welsh and introduced us to the minister. He is Welsh. He
speaks Welsh. We still get everywhere.
St Helen’s
(formerly the nunnery of St Helen) is one of the City of London’s few surviving
medieval churches, with a stunning collection of medieval and post-medieval
tombs and a remarkable claim in the guide book. We were told that in 1285
Edward I gave the church a cross called Neit which he had ‘found’ in Wales Windsor
Back home, I
sent a hopeful email enquiry to the church. I was worried that relics and relic
cults could be tricky for evangelical Anglicans but the current and previous
building managers got back to me with encouraging speed. The guide book was
based on the Survey of London
We still
don’t know where the Croes was before it was surrendered to Edward I. In Celtic Britain and
the Pilgrim Movement (p 100) Griffith Hartwell Jones says it was on
Llywelyn’s body when he was killed, but he gives no source for this and the
sources he quotes for the hand-over of the Croes don’t say where it was found.
Personal reliquaries were common, and it is quite possible that Llywelyn would
have wanted this precious relic as near to him as possible: but if he was
killed by an English raiding party (and his body was subsequently mutilated and
his head taken and placed on Traitor’s Gate in London) how did the relic remain
in Welsh hands to be surrendered the following year? Other traditions suggest
it was kept by the Cistercian monks of Aberconwy. It was certainly at Conwy
that it was handed over to Edward. The Aberconwy community had been moved from
Rhedynog-felen, near Clynnog, by Llywelyn’s grandfather Llywelyn ab Iorwerth,
who wanted them nearer to his palace at Deganwy. Llywelyn ab Iorwerth himself
took the monastic habit at Aberconwy shortly before his death and was buried
there.
The Welsh
Rolls of Edward I describe the Croes being handed over at Conwy by ‘Einion son
of Ynor, Llywelyn, Dafydd, Meilyr, Gronw, Deio and Tegnared’: as a reward they
were released from any other royal service. (Rot. Wal. 2 Edw. 1 m. 1; Rymer, Foedera,
i, 63). On the other hand … according to the chronicle of William Rishanger, a
monk of St Albans (online at https://archive.org/stream/willelmirishange00rish#page/104/mode/2up
), it was Dafydd ap Gruffydd’s secretary who brought the relic to Edward. This
was presumably the Hugh ab Ithel who was given a scholarship at Oxford
Dafydd was
still alive when the Croes was handed over. In September he suffered the
horrific death of a traitor, being hanged, drawn and quartered, the four parts
of his body sent to the four quarters of the kingdom and his head placed on the
Tower of London Wales Scone a few years later.
Edward took
the Croes to London in the spring of 1285 and
carried it in a great procession to Westminster Constantine St George’s England Britain
But Edward’s
generosity was a fragile thing, and the Croes did not stay in Bishopsgate. The
priory was still being described as thepriory of Holy Cross and St. Helen in
1299 (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vol9/pt1/pp1-18#fnn33
), but by 1296 Edward had reclaimed the relic. That year, he took it on his
Scottish campaign, and it was on the Croes that Wishart, bishop of Glasgow Wales Solway Firth . Edward took it to Scotland Tower of London
until Edward III gave it to Windsor
It is just
possible that the Croes was returned to Wales St Thomas that if the child recovered
he would go on pilgrimage to St Thomas ’s tomb in
Hereford church of Conwy Wales Wales England
The Scots
have managed to get the Stone of Scone back
but the Croes Naid was almost certainly destroyed during the reign of Edward
VI. Does it matter? Should the Welsh still feel sore that a scrap of wood was
taken from Conwy when we lost so much else as well? Supposing it turned up at Windsor
This entry was posted in Welsh
history and tagged Bishopsgate,
Croes Naid,
London, relics on March 21, 2015.
MYSTERY OF THE ROYAL CHALICE
In 1890 two men working in the area around Dolgellau in North Wales discovered this pair of objects in a crevice
between rocks.1 Encrusted with soil and plant
matter, the objects were not at first identifiable. Removing the accumulated
debris, however, revealed a gilt silver chalice and paten, vessels meant to
hold the wine and bread during celebration of the Eucharist in Christian
liturgy. Based on stylistic and iconographical evidence, experts dated the
objects to the thirteenth century. The paten bears a six-lobed indent and
engraved decoration of the Evangelists and of Christ enclosed in a circular
band inscribed with the Trinitarian formula, “in the name of the Father, and of
the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” The chalice has foliate decoration around its
foot, a lobed and engraved knop, and shallow bowl, and is marked with the name
of a possible donor or maker.
Here is a very rare survival of medieval sacred metalwork
in the British Isles . Campaigns of liquidation
during the Reformation sent most older church plate into the crucible. Few
precious metal objects endured the rapacious confiscations of Henry VIII during
the Dissolution of the Monasteries (1536-1541). Parish churches were allowed a
single chalice and paten, but most of these were later converted to communion
cups under pressure from Matthew Parker, Archbishop of Canterbury
So how did this medieval chalice and paten come to rest
in the soil of Merionethshire? They may simply have been stolen at some point
and hidden by thieves unable to return to claim them. But thieves of church
plate usually rushed to sell off their loot or convert it into bullion as
quickly as possible. The fact that the Dolgellau finds remain intact suggests
that they were hidden with an expectation of future recovery. A few anecdotes
from the Dissolution record attempts by members of religious orders to
physically hide precious metalwork from commissioners, rather than merely
liquidating it in advance of collections, as many did.3 Cymer Abbey in nearby Llanelltyd may have been the original home of the
chalice and paten and its Cistercian brothers those responsible for hoarding
them away in a moment of crisis.
This small act of resistance is an important clue to the
history of confessional change in Britain Elizabeth
The formal properties were, to put it another way,
symbolically dense; they had strong cultural meaning for their users and
beholders. The vessel’s material, on the other hand, was highly alienable,
susceptible to being sold, pawned, or converted into currency because of its
monetary value. Anthropologists use the spectrum between these endpoints,
“symbolically dense” and “alienable,” to describe peoples’ attitudes and
actions toward possessions.5 The more symbolically dense an
object is, the more culturally and personally valued, the more resistant it
becomes to alienation. An object’s position on the spectrum can change with
context, of course, and the Reformation is a prime case in which religious
possessions like relics and cult statues long considered to be “inalienable”
quite rapidly lost their sacred value for many.
For the person or persons who hid the Dolgellau plate,
though, these objects were likely still worthy of protection. The chalice and
paten made the central rite of the Mass physically possible and materially
sanctified and connected daily ritual to a long tradition of worship. Vivid
testaments both to the moment of their making in the thirteenth century and to
the moment of their rescue and hiding in the sixteenth, the Dolgellau finds of
1890 thus map two critical points in the material history of Christianity in
Britain, from the peak of monastic life in the Middle Ages to its virtual
demolition three centuries later.
Notes
1. For a recent catalogue entry on the set, see Timothy Schroder, Renaissance Silver from the Schroder Collection
(London
2. Charles Oman gives a comprehensive account of these events in English Church Plate, 597-1830 (London:
Oxford University Press, 1957), 129-144.
3. Though Oman
argues that monks would likely have regarded a resurgence of their orders in England
4. Sarah Tarlow, “Reformation and Transformation: What Happened to
Catholic Things in a Protestant World?,” in The
Archaeology of Reformation, 1480-1580, eds. David R. M. Gaimster
and Roberta Gilchrist (Leeds : Maney, 2003).
5. See discussions in Annette B. Weiner, “Inalienable Wealth,” American Ethnologist 12, no. 2 (1985):
210-227 and “Cultural Difference and the Density of Objects,” American Ethnologist 21, no. 2 (1994):
291-403.
Citation Guide
1. Allison Stielau, "The
Dolgellau Chalice and Paten," Object Narrative, in Conversations: An Online Journal of the Center for
the Study of Material and Visual Cultures of Religion (2014), http://mavcor.yale.edu/conversations/object-narratives/dolgellau-chalice...
Stielau, Allison. "The Dolgellau
Chalice and Paten." Object Narrative. In
Conversations: An Online Journal of the Center for the Study of Material and
Visual Cultures of Religion (2014). http://mavcor.yale.edu/conversations/object-narratives/dolgellau-chalice...
A
GRANDMOTHER descendant of a prospector who found hidden treasure which was
claimed by the Crown wants it returned to North Wales.Meiriona Jones is
campaigning for a 13th century chalice and paten, discovered at Abbey Cymer,
near Dolgellau, to “come home” and be put on public show.
Yesterday the mum-of-five told how her granddad Ellis Jones and friend
Griffith Griffith National Museum
of Wales in Cardiff Iona ,
wants them to be returned to Dolgellau and put on public show. Mrs Jones, a
75-year-old retired nurse brought up in Corwen and who has lived in Denbigh and
Caernarfon, now lives at Borth, near Aberystwyth. She said: “Neither of them
received any recognition or reward for finding the treasure. It’s not fair. “The
treasure should be returned to Dolgellau so that people in North Wales who
can’t afford to travel to Cardiff British Museum in London
“It’s a
shame that my grandfather’s treasure has now been taken by the Crown because it
was he and his friend who found it.” The treasure was believed to have been
hidden to prevent them falling into the hands of King Henry the VIII during his
dissolution of the monasteries. The story goes following their find, two
strangers called on Griffith and Jones claiming they had no right to the
treasure and warning they might get into serious trouble if they kept them. Griffiths
and Jones were persuaded to hand them over to the strangers who then sold them
for 50 shillings. Hearing of this transaction, the workmen’s boss, TH Roberts
of Dolgellau, bought them back. News of the discovery soon spread and on June
14, 1890 an article appeared in the Illustrated London
According
to the story, Mr Roberts would not give way. Then in 1892, the treasure came up
for sale at Christie’s and was sold for #710, and re-sold a little later for
#3,000 to a Baron Schroder. The publicity stirred the Crown to start legal
action, seeking to prove the vessels were indeed treasure trove – not simply
abandoned but rather concealed on purpose. When found in 1890 the chalice and
paten lay close together and did not seem to have been thrown hastily. Baron
Schroder died on May 10, 1910, and left the treasure to the Crown. A home had
to be found for the cup and plate. Abbey Cymer itself was in ruins, so, in
keeping with the personal wish of the King of England, George V, the treasure
found a safe haven at the National Museum of Wales, Cardiff, where it is still
kept now.
Monday 22 July 2019
Y CROES NAID FORGOTTEN NATIONAL TREASURE PART 2.
Spoils
of war - the Cross Gneth - College of St George
The ‘Cross Gneth’ or ‘Croes Naid’ was a relic said to be a piece of
the True Cross. It had belonged to the native Prince of North Wales and formed
part of the spoils given over to Edward I at the close of the campaign against
Llewellyn and the Welsh in 1283.
1.
Cross of Neith - Wikipedia
The Cross of Neith (Welsh Y Groes Naid or Y Groes Nawdd) was a sacred relic believed to
be a fragment of the True Cross which had been kept at Aberconwy by the kings
and princes of Gwynedd, members of the Aberffraw dynasty who established the
Principality of Wales
2.
Y Groes
Naid - Wicipedia
Crair gysegredig y credid ei bod yn ddarn o'r Gwir Groes a
oedd yn un o greiriau pwysicaf Teyrnas Gwynedd yn yr Oesoedd Canol oedd Y Groes Naid neu Y Groes Nawdd (cyfeirir
ati yn Saesneg weithiau fel The Cross of Neith).
Alternatively, it could be a memory of the Croes Naid, recalling
either its time at Aberconwy Abbey or its return to Wales
o
Author: Madeleine
Gray
The Cross of Neith or Cross Gneth (Welsh:Y Groes Naid or Y Groes Nawdd) was a relic believed to be a
fragment of the True Cross which had been kept at Aberconwy by the kings and
princes of Gwynnedd, members of the Aberffraw dynasty who established the
Principality of Wales They believed it afforded them and their people divine
protection.
Croes Naid, also known as The Cross of Neith, was a sacred relic and the most important piece of jewellery in the Welsh crown jewels. An ornate cross incorporating part of the True Cross, it was said to have wielded its protection over the House of Aberffraw
GWYNEDD FALL OF A DYNASTY and Y CROES NAID STOLEN 1282
- 1283 - 1284. An Artistic Interpretation in 'Adfywiad Art'.
o
Author: WELSH
REMEMBRANCERS
o
further gwynedd had it's royal treasures inc 'y croes naid' stolen by
edward i in 1283..... SINCE YOU HAVE HAD' ENGLISH PRINCES' OF WALES
o
Author: WELSH
REMEMBRANCERS
o
19 may forget that royal wedding and remember our croes naid and other stolen cymric royal
treasures no patriot bothers to campaign for return of other that we 'welsh
remembrancers'
o
Author: WELSH
REMEMBRANCERS
o
seeking first to initiate a campaign for
restoration of welsh royal treasures foremost of which being 'y croes naid' stolen by
edward i at conquest of cymru 1282 - 83. as wellthis new adfywiad gwladgarol
will continue in ysbryd cofiwn.....
A Historical Archive of material regards the
National Consciousness raising movement COFIWN from 1972 - 1986. This Blog
Platform also Continues Cymric Consciousness Campaigning in theory and reports
of related events and activities in present times also …
o
Author: WELSH
REMEMBRANCERS
o
GWYNEDD FALL OF A DYNASTY and Y CROES NAID STOLEN
1282 - 1283 - 1284. An Artistic Interpretation in 'Adfywiad Art'. An Artistic
Interpretation in 'Adfywiad Art'. Yes!
o
Author: WELSH
REMEMBRANCERS
o
seeking first to initiate a campaign for
restoration of welsh royal treasures foremost of which being 'y croes naid' stolen by
edward i at conquest of cymru 1282 - 83. as wellthis new adfywiad gwladgarol
will continue in ysbryd cofiwn.....
A Historical Archive of material regards the
National Consciousness raising movement COFIWN from 1972 - 1986. This Blog
Platform also Continues Cymric Consciousness Campaigning in theory and reports
of related events and activities in present times also …
o
Author: WELSH
REMEMBRANCERS
o
24/10/2018 ·
resurgence - resistance - rebellion. caernarfon 2018 & 201 9 a welsh nationalist
proving ground not cilmeri once a year - a rally of defeatists with no
detirmination or guts to really fight back against insults and indimidation let
alone for freedom.
o
Author: WELSH
REMEMBRANCERS
o
3.
Also with Sian
Ifan Cofiwn Welsh
Remembrancer 1972 - 1984. Embassy Glyndwr Staff Member 1999 - 2016.
Further activism 2000 - 2016 Radically active as Partisan Cymru Socialist
Campaigner. Embassy Glyndwr Staff Member 1999 - 2016.
o
Author: WELSH
REMEMBRANCERS
o
16/11/2011 · in
support of the restore y croes
naid campaign. Make These designs into Flags, Placards, Posters,
Stickers also patches. Sweaters and T-Shirts also use as graphics in
publications and on websites and blogs.
http://welshremembrancer.blogspot.com/2008/12/last-prince-of-wales-rhys-ap-gruffydd.html
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